The Joe Rogan Experience #502 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick 2014-05-16 | Dr. Rhonda Patrick is a Ph.D in biomedical science and expert on nutritional health. Psst the sleep review industry is full of liars, sharks, and thieves. It's been shown to happen in young, healthy athletes.". Rogan: What are you using to monitor that?if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'sleepline_com-leader-2','ezslot_10',662,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-sleepline_com-leader-2-0'); Patrick: I dont think the sleep stage is accurate. Its uncomfortable, youre wearing a mask over your face. Patrick: Can you tell me what it is? They talked about the benefits of saunas on your sleep, blue light glasses, sleep apnea, and more. Y2Q4OTkwZWQ1Nzc0ODllNjg2NWM3MzA2OWViMDBmNDg3NjljYWVmMzYxYmEx While Rogan cited the issue of young people experiencing side effects from the vaccine, such as strokes, blood clots, and myocarditis, Patrick was able to point to evidence that these conditions were on the rise even prior to the pandemic, and are still found in greater instances in unvaccinated people. Podcast Notes isnot associated or affiliated with the source podcast (unless otherwise stated). Patrick: So I have all the apps and stuff. If you would prefer a capsule form of vitamin K2 and vitamin k we suggest . Patrick presented an argument for getting vaccinated even if you are young, healthy and active, a stance in direct opposition to the position taken by Rogan in previous episodes. Its a modern-day version of getting ripped off at your local mattress store. YjBmOTYzZmEyYjhlYzI4MDFlODZjZDA2ODNkMWI2ZDk0OTI2OTE4ZDBkZjQx YTg0MmRhYzZjZjcwM2MyYmYxYzhjNGI1Y2ZjOSIsInNpZ25hdHVyZSI6IjZl OThmMzI0ZjQ5NzAxN2YwMGM5ZWQwOWQ0OWZmYmIxMmQzZDUzYjlmNjdlODU0 Bonobos are also the least violent type of Ape, maybe because they have the most sex? As a result, the web page can not be displayed. To help support the investigation, you can pull the corresponding error log from your web server and submit it our support team. Rogan: Theyre also stressed out and they have anxiety. Specifically, Rogan will take three teaspoons of Carlson's daily. Key for brain aging, more tends decrease AD/damage/etc. Rogan has been criticized for making public remarks about the vaccine which many deem irresponsible and potentially even dangerous, given his enormous platform. I might have to because when I actually get a chance to watch TV it doesnt happen much because right now my son falls asleep at nine and he wakes up at six. Rhonda Patrick's Comprehensive Joe Rogan Experience Notes Suppose you've enjoyed any of Dr. Patrick's Joe Rogan Experience appearances. YTcwNmY1M2M4NDZkYmQ5ZWNhN2UxMWNlMWNiMTRhNjU4OWFhZjI2NmU4Zjgy If you absolutely have to stare at a screen at night, this is the best way to improve your sleep. Dr Rhonda Patrick - we have hundreds of millions of people who have been vaccinated safely Joe Rogan - I know a guy 394 MoesBAR 1 yr. ago I've never seen Joe push back against her that much before. Download Audio. Podcast Notes is a Signal From the Noise LLC Production, All Right Reserved, Berkshire Hathaway Annual Shareholders Meeting, Christopher Lockhead's Follow Your Different, Everyday Espionage Podcast with Andrew Bustamante, Feel Better, Live More With Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, Logocentrifugal Podcast With Chance Lunceford, Moonshots and Mindsets with Peter Diamandis, Network State Podcast with Balaji Srinivasan, Spearhead with Naval Ravikant and Babak Nivi, The Jolly Swagman Podcast with Joseph Walker, The Underworld Podcast with Danny Gold and Sean Williams, The Unraveling Podcast with Jocko Willink and Darryl Cooper, This Week in Startups with Jason Calacanis, Where It Happens with Sahil Bloom and Greg Isenberg, Wild Alasakan Salmon Roe from Vital Choice, DHA the omega 3 fatty acid predominantly found in fatty fish, 1% of a fishs DHA is in the phospholipid form, In the roe of a fish (aka fish eggs) 40-70% of the DHA is found in the phospholipid form, Epigenetics changing how much a gene is activated or not activated, In one study, obesity was looked at in fathers. Because my father-in-law has apnea. Dr. Rhonda Patrick makes her seventh appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience. Podcast Notes is a Signal From the Noise LLC Production, All Right Reserved, Berkshire Hathaway Annual Shareholders Meeting, Christopher Lockhead's Follow Your Different, Everyday Espionage Podcast with Andrew Bustamante, Feel Better, Live More With Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, Logocentrifugal Podcast With Chance Lunceford, Moonshots and Mindsets with Peter Diamandis, Network State Podcast with Balaji Srinivasan, Spearhead with Naval Ravikant and Babak Nivi, The Jolly Swagman Podcast with Joseph Walker, The Underworld Podcast with Danny Gold and Sean Williams, The Unraveling Podcast with Jocko Willink and Darryl Cooper, This Week in Startups with Jason Calacanis, Where It Happens with Sahil Bloom and Greg Isenberg, Most people on ketogenic diet are probably not actually achieving ketosis, Ketogenic diet isnt just about extreme low carb you have to be intentional about consuming very high fat, There are differences between fasting state and ketosis but you will make beta hydroxybutyrate and produce a lot of gabba in both cases which can improve cognitive function, Omega-3s are critical in diet: people with low omega-3 index have higher all cause mortality and lower lifespan, The quality of food makes a huge difference in micronutrient profile (and taste), Exercise can be tricky when trying to achieve ketosis: aerobic exercise can stimulate it, strength training can kick you out, Sauna use could offer a great way for the body to mimic exercise in people who are disabled, depressed, or otherwise not willing to exercise. Usually I just kind of scream and wake up and I think someones going to get me, you know? NjljNzE4YWRlNjgxYTQ0MTI3OWQxNjJjOWQwYWE0NmIyN2VkZWI1MWI5Mzdh The Private Medical team is joined by Dr. Josh Woolley to discuss the latest research on how psilocybin and related compounds impact the FREE when you join over 50,000 subscribers to the Podcast Notes newsletter. The first year it hit me hard because I wasnt sleeping because every three hours you have to feed the baby.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'sleepline_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_6',659,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-sleepline_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); Rogan: Thats a giant factor in your immune system. Hes talked about it before. It calculates heart rate, body movement, and temperature. Its totally calculating me as asleep. Dr Peter McCullough appeared on a recent episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, where he claimed that health officials withheld treatments for Covid-19 in the early days of the pandemic in order. However, if they had/possessed none of these, they had the same all cause/cancer mortality that the non-meat eaters had. Joe Rogan - Dr. Rhonda Patrick On Powerful Health Benefits Of Sulforaphane JRE Daily 1.58K subscribers Subscribe 20K views 4 years ago Click the following link for Optimized Liver. #1474 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick - The Joe Rogan Experience | Podcast on Spotify Home Search Your Library Create Playlist Preview of Spotify Sign up to get unlimited songs and podcasts with occasional ads. EPA, DHA, cholesterol, etc. It appears to me that Dr. Patrick might not be a true physiology nerd, and I am looking for counter arguments. Having someone that snores, you cant sleep. I know youve had Matt Walker on the podcast. What is you just ate a bunch of organ meat to get the micronutrients youd be missing from vegetables? She has dedicated her research career to finding proactive and preventive solutions to aging and longevity. COVID vaccine misinformation has been rampant you will eventually be exposed to virus at some point, so the decision/risk to consider is: do you want to be vaccinated or unvaccinated at the time of exposure? Dr. Rhonda Patrick ( @foundmyfitness) has a Ph.D. in biomedical science and is an expert on nutritional health. Patrick: I used to never get sick. He was laying on his back and he was really snoring loud. MTE4YzU2NzFiN2UzYTBmMGZkYjA2N2YzN2IyZjkyOThjZjE4ZDU0MzlhYTBl Rhonda would like to see APOE testing adopted by the NFL, boxing, MMA, etc. Patrick: Oh yeah sleep is huge. I was on a plane once and this guy behind me and he was kind of a heavy fellow and he was really snoring loud. In Joe Rogan's recent podcast with Dr. Rhonda Patrick, he says that he takes the liquid form of Carlson's Super Omega-3 Fish Oil. Prior to this, . Dr. Rhonda Patrick appeared on episode #1474 of the Joe Rogan Experience to discuss a variety of topics including COVID-19, saunas, nutrition, and sleep. Rhonda did a study with blueberries which have contain a plant insecticide that binds to NRF2 gene that is inflammatory Testing blood from obese people and are pre-diabetic 50% get freeze dried blueberry powder drink and 50% placebo Look at damage to the DNA and inflammation DNA damage leads to increased risk of cancer #1701 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick - The Joe Rogan Experience | Podcast on Spotify Home Your Library Preview of Spotify Sign up free 0:00 0:00 Couldn't find that podcast Search for something else? So theyre like melatonin is not being produced so if we travel to the in-laws and they have lights on Im going around and turning them off because I want my son to go to bed at a normal hour. I go dude yeah this is really bad. N2JiNTJkZjIwMDVjMTk5OTkwZTAzNTE3MmQ2ZjkyNWE4ODlkMjViZTUyYTIz MjcxZDgxMWMzOTlmZjA1YTNhNmU0MjA1MWI0MjgxMGQyZmQ3ZDUwOTBhZjI4 Healthy cells increase their stress response pathways when youre fasting (more heat shock proteins, more antioxidants etc. but IV vitamin C is for therapeutic treatment, IV vitamin C is routinely used for sepsis and has been shown to reduce mortality of sepsis patients, especially in combination with thiamine, IV vitamin C has also been shown to improve outcomes for cancer patients and plays a role in fat oxidation, When taken orally, there is a saturation level so once you go above that you excrete a lot in urine but if you look at plasma levels, youre still increasing, Its not something you do daily, its more for a purpose such as fighting the common cold; somewhere between once per week and once per month, Rhonda was receiving once per week prior to shutdown, Zinc is important for immune function and has been shown to dramatically decrease duration of common cold, Zinc is readily available in meat and poultry so there isnt a lot of zinc immune deficiency in the US but vegetarians are more prone to zinc deficiency, Quercetin is actually known to have antiviral activity against SARS-CoV-1, Quercetin has been identified as a possible compound that can clean out senescent cells (non-functioning cells that secrete cytokines and things that age in cells), A lot of studies looking at children that are asymptomatic, symptomatic, uninfected, Children that are asymptomatic are shedding as much virus as children that are symptomatic and adults that are symptomatic, Joe regularly tests himself and tests everyone that goes into the studio, The cloth mask is to prevent you from spreading, not necessarily as protective against breathing in droplets, If youre asymptomatic, a cloth mask will help in preventing spread, Studies showed that women who chew xylitol gum during pregnancy improve the microbiome of their mouth and have children with lower incidence of. In order to make sure she gets an adequate amount of vitamin D levels per day, Patrick resorts to this supplement. ODc0ZGJkNTM4MjQ1Nzg0N2IwNjYzMjk1ZTg2NmNjZTQ3YmNhM2NhMDkwYzEz . ZmFiNDkzYTNjMTFiOTczNzUyYTVjYWE1OTBmNGI0YmFmNzQ4NWE5YWRjMzQw About 300 different genes were different in how they were/were not activated in the sperm DNA of the obese men. ), Include a panel of nutritionists, etc. NjkxYjdiZjVhNDUzM2I2Yzk1NDQ3ZDk0Nzg0MDM3ZmIwZTM4Zjc5ZDUxMDA3 0:00 / 24:29 Joe Rogan - Dr. Rhonda Patrick on the Carnivore Diet JRE Clips 6.95M subscribers Subscribe 43K Share 3.1M views 4 years ago Show more Show more Joe Rogan Reports Back. I measure and track my sleep as well and I think I dont know how accurate the sleep stage stuff is. Sleep is so important for immune function. Couldn't find this anywhere online so here's what I've found. Patrick: Im glad I dont have that but for the night terror thing the melatonin helps. Lots of other researchers have studied this. Learn more about why you should trust our reviews and view our disclosure page. OWM3NWZhYTQ5YzYxMTRiMmU5NjQ3NDlmN2M4OGI3ZjQ2ODVlZWE0NWJjY2Ux Joe Rogan discusses Meat, Saturated Fat, and Cancer with Dr Rhonda Patrick Podcast Notes isnot associated or affiliated with the source podcast (unless otherwise stated). #1474 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick The Joe Rogan Experience 1,043 views 14 May 2020 Transcribe your podcast [00:00:00] Hello, friends, welcome to the show. 77 Exercise is awesome of TONS of reasons, just do it!!! Patrick: I thought I had it at first. All notes are independently created and do not imply any sponsorship or endorsement by the source podcast. It happens earlier in my sleep cycle. Click to reveal Podcast Notes isnot associated or affiliated with the source podcast (unless otherwise stated). .css-16acfp5{-webkit-text-decoration:underline;text-decoration:underline;text-decoration-thickness:0.125rem;text-decoration-color:#d2232e;text-underline-offset:0.25rem;color:inherit;-webkit-transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;}.css-16acfp5:hover{color:#000;text-decoration-color:border-link-body-hover;background-color:yellow;-webkit-transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;}Joe Rogan has interviewed academics on an array of topics before, but Patrick's appearance on the show was slightly different, in that she took the opportunity to speak on the dangers of medical misinformation surrounding the Covid vaccine to Rogan's 190 million-strong audience. Totally. Podcast Notes is a Signal From the Noise LLC Production, All Right Reserved, Berkshire Hathaway Annual Shareholders Meeting, Christopher Lockhead's Follow Your Different, Everyday Espionage Podcast with Andrew Bustamante, Feel Better, Live More With Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, Logocentrifugal Podcast With Chance Lunceford, Moonshots and Mindsets with Peter Diamandis, Network State Podcast with Balaji Srinivasan, Spearhead with Naval Ravikant and Babak Nivi, The Jolly Swagman Podcast with Joseph Walker, The Underworld Podcast with Danny Gold and Sean Williams, The Unraveling Podcast with Jocko Willink and Darryl Cooper, This Week in Startups with Jason Calacanis, Where It Happens with Sahil Bloom and Greg Isenberg, Shes very cautious about exposing him to any BPA in plastic, Typically we excrete BPA through urine and sweat, While pregnant, Rhonda made sure not to consume any water from plastic bottles due to the concern of exposing her son to BPA, This includes baby bottles, as well as plastic water bottles, Living in a major metropolitan area, like NYC, can shorten your life from the air pollution, One study compared the happiness of runners after going for a run in nature vs. a metropolitan area, Runners who ran in nature were far happier after their run, You also have to be mindful of brake dust pollution, People eat less when they eat a high protein diet, You have less insulin production, which changes your leptin and ghrelin levels (the satiety and hunger hormones, respectively), which causes you to eat less, Studies show that when people are given the same food every single day, naturally they start to eat less, and calorie restrict themselves, While fasting, or just calorie restricting to very low levels, entire cells are cleared away through a process known as apoptosis, Organs shrink during the fasting, and then re-expand when you eat, The microbiome has been linked to autoimmunity in things like arthritis and multiple sclerosis (MS), One study showed that when people with MS fasted every other day for 7 days, they experienced profound changes in the gut microbiome, They grew gut bacteria which produce more butyrate (this is a short chain fatty acid which gut cells love its good for them), which helps the immune system produce for T-regulatory cells, There are negative changes, in terms of the gut microbiome that occur when following a carnivore diet, These bacteria create genotoxic agents known as putracine and cadaverine which damage the DNA inside colon cells, Do a prolonged fast 1x a quarter, depending on how severe the issues are, Do a fasting mimicking diet (FMD) once per month, One study showed that going on a ketogenic diet for three months, also improved symptoms of autoimmunity, Rhonda has concerns about micronutrients (check out these. eyJtZXNzYWdlIjoiYWRmN2ZhMjQ4MjRjYTdiNzUwMzY3YTgyMDc3ZTMwMmMy Please include the Ray ID (which is at the bottom of this error page). Patrick: I know its associated with obesity. Rhonda Perciavalle Patrick has a Ph.D. in biomedical science from the University of Tennessee Health Science Center, Memphis TN, and St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, Memphis, TN. I started reading about this stuff and a lot of the treatments are stuff like benzos and hell no Im not going to take benzos. Because you have to measure brain waves. Dan and I dont have a TV in our bedroom, bu theres times when we travel where theres a TV in the hotel room. "But if you're saying to yourself, 'Even if I get infected, I could do damage to somebody else, even if I have no symptoms at all' that's the reason why you've got to be careful and get vaccinated. In breast milk, oligosaccharhides are very plentiful, They cant be digested by the inflants digestive system, and are there solely to feed the infants gut microbiome, specifically increasing the species bifidobacterium infantis, The stem cells in breast milk get digested, and go to into the bloodstream, and travel to different organs to further development, After you have the baby, this effect decreases, making a lot of mothers feel sad, Also adding to the postpartum depression, new moms dont get enough light, and sleep is drastically altered. hundreds of millions of tax dollars More states will follow the money. Dr. Rhonda Patrick obtained her Ph.D. in biomedical science from the University of Tennessee Health Science Center in Memphis, Tennessee. Some we cant control like where you are born, genetics, etc. Her podcasts and other videos can be found at FoundMyFitness.com. "If you look at the data, young people are also experiencing those things at a higher rate," she said. -----BEGIN REPORT----- SHARE. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Podcast Notes is a Signal From the Noise LLC Production, All Right Reserved, Berkshire Hathaway Annual Shareholders Meeting, Christopher Lockhead's Follow Your Different, Everyday Espionage Podcast with Andrew Bustamante, Feel Better, Live More With Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, Logocentrifugal Podcast With Chance Lunceford, Moonshots and Mindsets with Peter Diamandis, Network State Podcast with Balaji Srinivasan, Spearhead with Naval Ravikant and Babak Nivi, The Jolly Swagman Podcast with Joseph Walker, The Underworld Podcast with Danny Gold and Sean Williams, The Unraveling Podcast with Jocko Willink and Darryl Cooper, This Week in Startups with Jason Calacanis, Where It Happens with Sahil Bloom and Greg Isenberg, Sauna: if you have access use the sauna regularly to improve cardiovascular health and immune functions take a hot bath if you dont have access, Theres a big difference between oral vitamin C and Intravenous vitamin C, You can take vitamin C orally but will need a big dose and it still wont have the same effect; IV once per week if you can, Sleep plays a crucial role in immunity, homeostasis, and regulation of body functions, People are actively working on monoclonal antibodies, Improved therapeutic treatments coming, including more repurposing of drugs that will make things less scary, As you get older your immune system declines, There are lifestyle components of immune system you can be proactive about: exercise, sleep, supplements, nutrition, gut-microbiome health, Besides age, the major regulator of immune function seems to be previous virus exposure, not genetics, At any given point you have antibodies against 10 different viruses but youre not always getting sick, 50-80% of US population has had CMV and most people dont ever know they have had it and show no symptoms, CMV impacts immune function differently depending on when you get it, When youre young, it enhances immune response but for older people its deleterious, Interesting tie-in to COVID-19 because we know older people are more prone to severity, Its likely that theres some cross-immunity happening since SARS-COV-2 viruses is part of beta coronaviruses along with SARS-CoV-1 and MRSA, 15-30% of common colds come from coronaviruses so theres a good hypothesis that potentially one or two of common cold virus antibodies could interact with SARS-CoV-2 and neutralize it, Antibody binds to virus and instead of neutralizing it, changes the configuration so the virus can get into the cell better, This activates the immune system and causes pathology, This results in a higher viral load without antibodies to neutralize, Weve seen it happen with coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV-1 and MRSA, The spike region is where antibodies bind and is also the region the virus uses to get into the cell, Currently seeing two major strain mutations in the spike regions one mutation more prominent in Asia, one mutation more predominant in Europe and North America, Brings to light an interesting genetic link to mutations, Theres a theory that the mutation is causing peoples immune system to become more active and lead to severe COVID-19, Monoclonal antibodies: identify specific antibody that binds to spike protein and manufacture them, Problem is this will offer short lived protection since you are not making your own antibodies as you would with a vaccine, Continuous exploration into repurposing drugs and combination drug treatments, Anecdotally, the majority of people on ventilators die partly because ventilators cause more damage to the lungs and can induce more damage, But its hard to say which came first did the ventilator do the damage or was the damage so severe that the patient needed a ventilator, People with Type O blood seem to be less susceptible to contracting COVID-19, People with Type O blood create Type A antibodies which bind to spike region and neutralize antibody so it cant enter the cell, We saw this in SARS-CoV-1 so maybe same for SARS-CoV-2, Another (unproven) theory: Type O blood people have lower levels of blood factor involved in clotting, Hearing more stories that some prisoners are trying to contract SARS-CoV-2 to get out of jail by spitting in a cup and passing to others, First off, its important to distinguish between asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic, Some people do not have symptoms at the time of testing but develop symptoms later so are actually pre-symptomatic, Its possible that viruses have already gone around that environment so antibodies from those viruses are helping in immunity from SARS-CoV-2, Rhonda was also searching to literature to see whether inmates are vaccinated prior to entering but couldnt find that information, Poor sleep has a huge impact on glucose and spikes and also plays a role in maintaining optimal immune functions, Rhonda takes melatonin to help her sleep, 10 mg/day, Regulating circadian rhythm is crucial for sleep, Rhonda makes sure to have bright light exposure in the morning (e.g., opening curtains, walking outside), and changes the lighting in the house in the evening to red lights, 70% of US population has insufficient Vitamin D levels; 28% are deficient, Body can generate naturally when exposed to sun daily, Obese people in US are also more likely to be vitamin D deficient, Genetic polymorphisms: people that have variations in genes that cause them to have less vitamin D, These people are more likely to die from respiratory infection, African Americans in the US are 28x more deficient in vitamin D than Caucasians, A recent study that looked at COVID-19 patients observed an inverse relationship between vitamin D levels and COVID-19 symptoms: the lower the vitamin D levels, the higher the severity of COVID-19, In Indonesia almost all patients that died from COVID-19 were vitamin D deficient, Melanin blocks ability to produce Vitamin D, In the US and Europe, African Americans and black people are more likely to die from COVID-19, Even when adjusting for SES and lifestyle factors, this was still true so something else must be happening, Tolerable upper intake is 4000 IUs per day but its best to get vitamin D blood test to measure levels, There are clinical studies exploring the role of vitamin D but not many in the US, Rhonda wants to see nurses and first responders take vitamin D to see the role in prevention but those studies are not being done, Joe uses the sauna 7 days/week, 180-degrees for 25 min, Rhonda uses the sauna 5 days/week, 180-degrees for 25 min, Heart rate variability improves, blood pressure goes down, cardiovascular health improves, all-cause mortality decreases, Sauna use also improves immune system and makes you more resilient against infection, Brain-derived neurotropic factors (BDNF) increases with exercise and heat stress (sauna), The positive benefits of physical activity on the cardiovascular system were enhanced when sauna was added, Sauna use increases heat shock proteins which prevent muscle atrophy, neurodegenerative genes, and have anti-depressant effects, People who sat in 160-degree sauna for 30 minutes had a 60% increase in heat shock protein compared to baseline, Large Harvard study being done to assess whether hot yoga increases heat shock protein, Heat shock protein have antiviral activity against influenza A, Regular sauna is heating ambient air which in turn raises core body temperature, Infrared saunas are directly heating body without heating the ambient air for example, in a heating tent or blanket, We know more about the effects of dry sauna, For people who dont have access to sauna, a hot bath is a good modality for heat shock protein, Studies being done to assess whether sauna can have anti-depressant effect on depressed patients, Saunas could also provide an avenue for giving sedentary and disabled people the benefits of physical activity without exercising, Ice baths and cold showers can be comparable to cryotherapy but you have to stay in the cold water longer, Cold shock protein hasnt really been measured in humans, instead whats measured is norepinephrine which has been shown to increase, Cold shock protein and hot shock protein have been shown to improve mood as well, The pharmacokinetics of vitamin C are very different in oral vs IV consumption, Oral vitamin C is good for immune function, etc.
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