Some people feel the term Vietnam veteran should refer only to those who served in Vietnam, but the U.S. government defines them all as Vietnam-era veterans according to the Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 any veteran who served on active duty during the official time frame of the Vietnam War (1961-1975). The men and women at the main bases such as Saigon, Cam Ranh, Da Nang, Bien Hoa and Long Binh had a fairly sedentary life and plenty of downtime compared to combat soldiers, Lair said. He also wrote the liner notes, which reveal a surprising fact: The U.S. Army spends an estimated $200 million a year on music, and is the largest single employer of musicians in the country. At the end of his service, Shkurti was an executive officer with the 6th Armored Cavalry at Fort Meade, Maryland. Brutal tactics were the norm during the Vietnam War, and no one suffered more than the Vietnamese themselves, both in the North and the South. For the government ofLudwig Erhard (October 1963-November 1966) it was ultimately fatal. To make it even more complicated, just what is a combat veteran? On leave, Thornton would head home to see family and friends, but the war changed things. In 1972 Thornton enlisted in the U.S. Navy at 17 and trained to be a hospital corpsman. Arriving in West Germany, was a shocking experience for the new Army recruit. Still, a ration card would allow personnel to buy $2,000 to $3,000 worth of goods, she said. They were the rear echelon. While older Germans were friendly, younger ones were hostile and aloof, Shkurti said. Country western music blared all over Saigon, Lomperis said. Lockbourne/Rickenbacker Air Force Base in Ohio (906th and 907th Tactical Air Groups or 355th and 356th Tactical Airlift Squadron), Westover Air Force Base in Massachusetts (731st Tactical Air Squadron and 74th Aeromedical Evacuation Squadron), Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, International Airport (758th Airlift Squadron). 4) The Alps Swiss, German or French. The book became the first volume in aCenter of Military History series, U.S. Army in the Cold War. If I am sad about anything Vietnam-war, it is how other global players view that period of history when compared to the American perspective. Their silence carried a message and concealed the fact that many veterans served in the rear echelon and not in combat capacity, Lair said. If youre stuck on the base for days on end, visit the Wild B.O.A.R. After that, the search was on for as many of these Army bands as they could find. Good food makes people feel at home, Lair said. Built over time for more than $130 million, Long Binh eventually had 3,500 buildings and 180 miles of road covering an area bigger than Cleveland. After discharge in 1976, Thornton took his 4-year-old daughter and pregnant wife home to her family and used the GI Bill to earn an a degree in allied health sciences from University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Based on the HMD report, VA has decided to acknowledge exposure to Agent Orange for personnel whose military service involved regular contact with the contaminated C-123 aircraft. The US Army employed 17,000 American civilians in Germany in 2019. He never carried a gun because if he was shot, the enemy soldier could have claimed it was self-defense, he said. If you dig into it, it becomes a very grey war, he said. TCDD, the toxic substance in Agent Orange, may be inhaled as an aerosol or ingested by contaminated food or water or from hand-to-mouth transfer. One colonel joked, If we ever really got attacked, the V.C. 3) Paris, France. When we graduated we lined up in front of a building that you entered one at a time on one side and after getting your paper work you exited out the other side. After Boston, Thornton served at Marines Corps Base Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. Thornton returned to school later in life and is now finishing his doctorate in business administration in the field of cross-cultural competency and conflict management. Regardless of how we each served, part of our soul was left in that place with those who never came back alive, and with those who suffered and died after, and we should be honored for our collective loss if for no other reason. "I'm just amazed that [the band's] three singers didn't have hit records after they left the Army. They gave up their lives back home. Long Binh was not a standard base, but it was home to the Armys Vietnam headquarters and showed the abundance and consumerism that was possible to create. HMD released its report, Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, Jan. 9, 2015. Along with its allies, the US had liberated Germany from the Nazis. An average of 311,870 troops were stationed in Europe per year during 19861990. This large and rapid buildup required a tremendous amount of construction, carried out by Army Engineers and largely financed by occupied Germany. To prop up sinking morale and keep soldiers safe on base rather than heading into Vietnamese towns, the U.S. military strove to make bases as home-like as possible, Appy said. For website corrections, write to hqwebmaster@usace.army.mil. The experience that most people likely associate with Vietnam is the horror and deprivation of war, so its ironic that that wasnt the real experience of most Vietnam veterans, Lair said. The question became: When will someone tell what my war was like? Lair said. Like all the other members, he was a draftee, and had come from a tiny town in Mississippi. Expert architecture and design solutions for private carriers, next-generation metro and long-haul optical networks, ultra low-latency networks, and Internet backbones. WebAs the threat of imminent invasion receded in the late 1950s, U.S. Army Engineers continued to build and maintain facilities that supported American and NATO combat power and housed and supported U.S. forces and their families, now permanently stationed in West Germany. From sundries like razors and cigarettes, apple juice and chocolate milk to diamond jewelry and Rolex watches, stereos and kitchen appliances, servicepeople could buy just about anything even cars for their wives or girlfriends back home, said Lomperis. However, their wartime ally, the Soviet Union, soon became an enemy. It was still no guarantee you wouldn't be sent to Vietnam and in some cases even be sent to do something else besides what you trained for. Once we got our orders, the guy Just below me went to Germany. He wasn't wealthy or connected in anyway and he also had an Infantry MOS and he was one of three soldiers out of his basic training platoon that went to the ROK. WebIn An Army in Crisis Alexander Vazansky analyzes the social crisis that developed among the U.S. Army forces stationed in Germany between 1968 and 1975. "I've done my own searches on Google and so forth, but I cannot find anything," Hitt says. "All the branches of the armed services have always included music as part of their mission. It's there to boost morale, it's there to provide entertainment and comfort for soldiers, it's there to sort of represent what the U.S. is musically, culturally to the rest of the world.". As the Soviet system, like the Berlin Wall, collapsed in the late 1980s and early 1990s, it appeared that American and allied forces in Europe had accomplished their mission without war. For the next 17 years the Europe Division of the Corps executed the Army and Air Force construction programs in Europe and supported the NATO construction program. GRAFENWOEHR, Germany More than 30 veterans of the Vietnam War living in Germany were awarded pins Tuesday by the local Veterans of Foreign Wars post in recognition of their service. The songs East of Underground played weren't your run-of-the-mill patriotic marches in fact, some of them included controversial lyrics about race and politics. Its easy to forget how large a US military presence in West Germany and Korea was maintained during the late 60s and early 70s aside from the forces fighting in Vietnam. The U.S. has had personnel stationed in Germany and South Korea, two of its military allies, for several decades, yet the number of active-duty troops in each country is at a modern low. Abook describes and analyzes the important Engineer effort in Europe. Over the years the US Army has become firmly entrenched in the German landscape. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Ammunition storage facility, Heilbronn, West Germany (left); It's also a mystery what happened to the bands apart from Lewis Hitt, none of the members have come forward. If you are in crisis or having thoughts of suicide, My close friend had a similar experience in 69-70. In the early years, dances were held on the streets of Berlin in summer months and in winter, the US Army organized Christmas parties for local children. Error, please try again. Peace activists, however, saw them as a threat and held massive demonstrations. Health Care It's easy! I say 16 months because his orders were involuntarily extended because he was in the ROK when the USS Pueblo was taken. The big problem was that Saigon was Sodom and Gomorrah. Of his entire graduating platoon, only he and one other trooper were sent to West Germany, all the others got orders to RVN. Engineers and USACE remained in Europe, still proud of their contribution to defending Western Europe and ending the Cold War. Since his older two brothers were already serving in Vietnam he was not allowed to go. The Office of History, Headquarters, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and the U.S. Army Center of Military History jointly published this book,Building for Peace: U.S. Army Engineers in Europe, 1945-1991 written by Robert P. Grathwol and Donita Moorhus. I know that was very dependent upon where you called home, but that was my reality, Thornton said. I worked in an air-conditioned office and wore khakis, starched shirts, spit-shined shoes and a belt with a shiny brass buckle. Even as the war drew down in 1975 and early 1976, the pressure was intense as huge numbers of men came home with addictions and injuries too horrible to really describe, Thornton said. In Germany the U.S. military was protecting West Germany against the threat of Russian invasion, but it wasnt imminent, Shkurti said. Some 20 years later, US President George W. Bush went to war with Iraq over its alleged program to develop weapons of mass destruction. Its kind of like playing goalie for a soccer team. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. The entire emphasis is on the narrow combat experience, Lair said. 2018 Petabit Scale, All Rights Reserved. Why is Netflix pouring billions into South Korean shows? Is it if you might be in danger of a mortar attack versus projecting violence and delivering it to the enemy? I ask this because many guys of draft age enlisted, enlisted specifically for three years to chose their MOS, and in a great many cases avoid serving in South Vietnam. Out of our entire class I believe two, maybe three guys got orders for Korea. German Chancellor Gerhard Schrder, knowing the majority of voters supported him, ruled out Germany's involvement. 2 weeks before we graduated they told us, " Class 17, RVN". Lewis Hitt played guitar in East of Underground. Ukraine updates: Zelenskyy urges more effective air defense, Ukraine: Russia continues to target civilian sites, Ukraine's counteroffensive: Goals, opportunities, risks. When support servicemen crossed paths with combat troops, We felt guilty. Veterans must show on a factual basis that they were exposed in order to receive disability compensation for diseases related to Agent Orange exposure. Men facing shipping out exhibited many types of behavior. A new compilation pulls together some of those old records it's called East of Underground: Hell Below. would have to use the scheduled bus service to get around the base, Lair wrote in Armed with Abundance.. He now is an adjunct professor in the John Glenn College of Public Service. The war changed and dealt cruelty to many families, not just mine, but I have seen the sadness in my fathers eyes, and we both know what is there, and what is missing.. For guys drafted during Vietnam, what really were the odds they would be sent to Vietnam as opposed to remaining stateside, or sent to Germany or Korea? With two sons already in the war, they felt I should not go. The sky swarmed with helicopters. Reservists who were assigned to flight, ground, or medical crew duties at the following locations between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. The NATO maneuver Reforger I (Return of Forces to Germany) in Vilseck/Grafenwhr in 1969 was one of many joint war games held by the US Army and the Bundeswehr. 8) Bruges, Belgium. I am focused on peace and conflict reduction on a global and local scale, he said. One of the biggest lessons Dr. He was with the 3rd Infantry Division in Schweinfurt. They wore dirty boots and dog tags hanging around their necks. Saigon was considered relatively safe, but life wasnt easy and violence erupted. To enter and activate the submenu links, hit the down arrow. It's from here that controversial drone missions are flown against targets in Africa and Asia. People dont understand how consequential the decisions were that were being made at headquarters, he said. None would be here if Vietnam never happened, so it creates bittersweet feelings but no regrets, Thornton said. He was stationed in Gillenhausen, protecting a valley called Folda Gap. He could take that information back to the base. The mood around the country was not good for the military, not like today with cheers and applause for returning members. was told," you are going to Germany, get your wives in german class". It was a huge fire. At any moment all hell could break loose, Lair said. I was thinking I would have a better chance of determining where I would be sent.. Because he was one of the last there in that formation and those three went to the ROK. "Bear in mind that these bands were all engaged in a show band contest in 1971 and 1972, and the winners of the that contest would then be able to tour Europe, and would also record an LP in the Armed Forces Network studios in Frankfurt. "I met the singers and the other players and we got together and played, and it just kind of all meshed together.". 7th Army in particular suffered heavily, especially with loses of combat arms NCOs Then there was the two infantry brigades in Alaska, the 171st and 172nd, both gave up one battalion each for transfer to the 25th Infantry Division in Hawaii before it left there for South Vietnam, two full battalions had to be raised to replace the ones sent away. By They left their families to fight in a war that wasnt popular. Only about one out of seven were combat troops, said historian Chris Appy, history professor at University of Massachusetts Amherst. The Vietnam War was a long, costly and divisive conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam against South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. In addition to meeting locals, walks off-base could provide valuable intelligence. The following individuals may qualify for benefits related to Agent Orange exposure: Veterans may file a claim for disability compensation for health problems they believe are related to exposure to Agent Orange residue on post-Vietnam C-123 airplanes. File a claim online. Back at home over the decades, veterans themselves may have helped camouflage the roles they played during the war. "So this was a very viable way to avoid active duty in Southeast Asia.". Ask me or any other serviceperson and they will tell you they are proud of their service, Shkurti said. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. I expected it would be worse in Vietnam, but it was a more satisfying experience, Shkurti said. Some Air Force Reservists who were crew members on C-123 Provider aircraft, formerly used to spray Agent Orange during the Vietnam War, have raised health concerns about exposure to residual amounts of herbicides on plane surfaces. I thought, hot dog, going to go relic hunting. Active duty personnel who served in a regular USAF unit location where a contaminated C-123 was assigned who had regular contact with the aircraft through flight, ground, or medical duties between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. Drug abuse, overdoses, crime and traffic accidents led to several deaths within his unit. Youth activity centers in Germany included this facility in Wiesbaden. "The song selection includes songs that were playing in the States, and very much expressed the countercultural sentiments of political resistance in this country at that time," Hollander says. Instead of breaking them up, Army brass sent them on tour. I was in Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk Nov. 68-Jan 69. The Ramstein base is especially significant, since it is also headquarters of the United States Air Forces in Europe. There were more prostitutes than bureaucrats, and every kind of club and bar from high-class to low-class. They were also stationed in Germany, Japan, Thailand, Philippines, Korea, Guam and the continental United States. Most of all, Army bands will strive to honor General George Washington's observation, "Nothing is more agreeable and ornamental than good music. More military personnel played support roles than combat ones. The goal of keeping soldiers well-fed was that they would be happy, stay out of trouble and avoid vices like drugs or prostitution, she said. In retirement he wrote Soldiering On in a Dying War focusing on the Vietnam drawdown and The Ohio State University in the Sixties.. He says it was completely random, some bodies had to go to 7th Army and his lucky number came up. For recreation there were basketball, volleyball, tennis and multipurpose courts, football fields, miniature golf courses, a driving range, an archery range and a skeet-shooting range. To access the menus on this page please perform the following steps. Dotted around US bases are numerous residential districts for American soldiers and their families, such as this residential district in Wiesbaden-Erbenheim. Mastering these complicated and delicate international arrangements, EUD accomplished a large and complex construction program, especially during the 1980s. I was going for many reasons, but the most important was to close a chapter of history I felt needed closing, Thornton said. David Hollander produced the compilation. Office of Accountability & Whistleblower Protection, Training - Exposure - Experience (TEE) Tournament, Military Exposure Related Health Concerns, War Related Illness & Injury Study Center, Clinical Trainees (Academic Affiliations), Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, local VA Environmental Health Coordinator, Find out if you qualify for VA health care, diseases related to Agent Orange exposure, Call TTY if you The post exchanges, or PXs, rivaled todays big box outlets for variety and selection, Lair said. So there was a great need for personnel outside South Vietnam through out the entire period, and the refusal to mobilize the Reserves and National Guard only exacerbated the problem. I talked to many men who felt sheepish that they didnt have those (combat) stories to share, Lair said. Youre in the hot seat. US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY They also ate pretty well. Hitt says he had already been in one Army band by the time he joined the group. The high rate may have been attributed to our being an Infantry MOS, but the only way you didn't go to Vietnam was because of the above reasons. When I left Korea, the first thing I did when I got to Germany was to find Special Services, which happened to be right next to my barracks," Hitt recalls. One strong memory I have is how tough it was for the families, Thornton said. Its ironic because we were there to protect them. The Federal Republic of Germany became an important strategic location during the Cold War. Grafenwoehr is a tiny base compared to almost anywhere youve been stationed in the US. Patches, In 1968 you could volunteer for the draft and serve 2 years active duty. In-depth strategy and insight into critical interconnection ecosystems, datacenter connectivity, product optimization, fiber route development, and more. 800-829-4833, Veterans Crisis Line: It was a game of cat and mouse that almost turned deadly when he was nearly killed by some drunk Vietnamese soldiers, Lomperis said. So he was off to Camp Casey and the 9th Infantry Manchu's for 16 months, I was in the same unit a couple of decades after him. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. Hollander says it isn't clear what the Army planned to do with these recordings, especially since so few copies of them have surfaced just three dozen in East of Underground's case. They proudly served their country, but were derided by combat troops as REMFs or rear echelon mother (insert expletive here), Appy said. We served honorably. At the end of the Vietnam War, the United States adopted a volunteer Army, but declining military expenditures made it difficult to keep the American forces combat ready and maintain the quality of life for soldiers and their families. Despite separate residential districts, there has always been contact and exchange between German and American families. I was in Boston when the Chelsea fire occurred in October 1973, received a meritorious unit citation for fighting the fire that consumed a large portion of Chelsea 18 blocks one way, 16 blocks another. To preserve morale, the ration program ensured that all personnel were able to buy highend goods, but it was limited due to the possibility they might resell goods on the black market, Lair said. Even today, many see otherwise, but only at home., One place the guys in the rear and combat soldiers would cross paths was at rearward bases, which ranged from isolated fire bases less than a city block in size to major bases like Long Binh Post that resembled an American city, said Chris Appy, author of three books about the American war in Vietnam: American Reckoning: The Vietnam War and Our National Identity, Patriots: The Vietnam War Remembered from All Sides and Working- Class War: American Combat Soldiers and Vietnam.. Situated in a remote area with the enemy about 300 yards away over the border, Shkurtis unit was constantly in harms way. Combat veterans offered a truly unique and special contribution to the war, but that doesnt mean it wasnt a sacrifice for people who served as support, Lair said. WebThe United States Army has 40 military installations in Germany, two of which are scheduled to close. The U.S. military presence in Germany peaked at 274,119 in 1962, nearly eight times its level last year. He was awarded the U.S. After the defeat of Germany, the relatively small American force in Europe was preoccupied with the administration and reconstruction of their former foe. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. You would think (serving in Germany) would be a great duty, but it wasnt.. Executing the construction program was a complex affair because American forces in West Germany had to use German construction offices and procedures to build facilities. After completing Field Artillery Officer Candidate School at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, Shkurti was sent to Germany not Vietnam. You guessed it, my last name started with a T. Got a question 11Cav, during the Vietnam era/60s early 70s period, was there a difference between volunteering for the draft and outright enlisting? After completing his enlistment, Shkurti returned to Ohio State University to earn a masters degree in public administration. They worked in intelligence. Soldiers bought goods with their ration cards, which were punched when purchases were made, Lair said. 7th Army in particular suffered heavily, especially with loses of combat arms NCOs Then VA decides these claims on a case-by-case basis. While having a positive attitude about any PCS is important, its equally important to have realistic expectations. After graduating from Ohio State University in 1968, William Shkurti said, I knew I was going to be drafted so I enlisted. After Nazi Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, four countries representing the Allies (the United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, and France) asserted joint authority Both Germany and Vietnam were on the front lines of the Cold War. In Vietnam everyone knew everyone and what job they had. HMD found that Reservists who served as flight crew (pilot, navigator, flight engineer, and loadmaster), ground maintenance crew, and aero-medical personnel had regular contact with the aircraft, and would have experienced some exposure to chemicals from herbicide residue. She was a USO (United Service Organizations) volunteer who entertained servicemen. That led to deep divisions between Washington and Berlin. Deploy network infrastructure faster and easier than ever before, with pre-packaged yet massively scalable infrastructure components for top packet and optical systems. These facilities supported the large American and NATO forces stationed for almost fifty years on the front lines of the conflict between East and West, ready to confront a Soviet invasion. Along with its allies, the US had liberated Germany from the Nazis. With pressures on USAREUR in the mid-1970s to reduce the size of its headquarters and budget, the command asked the Corps of Engineers to take responsibility for military construction in the theater. During the era of the Vietnam War, American troops and facilities were neglected forcing Engineers to marshal their slender resources augmented by host nation contributions to keep American forces ready for war and take care of Army and Air Force personnel and their families. The tensions between the two sides were demonstrated when US Army and Soviet Union tanks faced off in a divided Berlin. You had no say in what your MOS would be. This often creates barriers to their full integration into German society. Bronze Star and the Vietnamese Army Staff Medal First Class and is the author of four books about Vietnam including The War Everyone Lost and Won.. In the late 65 through 1966, the Army Divisions outside of Vietnam, specifically CONUS and West Germany were hemorrhaging personnel for service in South Vietnam, these being primarily if not exclusively volunteers, these numbers had to be made good. As my husband likes to preach: expectation management.. 9) Luxembourg The band formed while its members were stationed in Germany during the Vietnam War. In response the Corps of Engineers drastically reduced the size of EUD and reconstituted it as the Europe District. 5) Venice, Italy. As the threat of imminent invasion receded in the late 1950s, U.S. Army Engineers continued to build and maintain facilities that supported American and NATO combat power and housed and supported U.S. forces and their families, now permanently stationed in West Germany. For military intelligence officer Timothy Lomperis, the constant whup, whup, whup of helicopters flying overhead is one of many things that stand out in his mind about the time he spent helping make critical war decisions in Saigon serving under Gen. Creighton Abrams, commander of U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam, from 1968 to 1972. When we got home, everybody was the same, said Lomperis, a Saigon warrior who served in a support capacity at MACV (U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam), also known as mafia HQ or Pentagon East.. We would take orders from Washington and from the five information streams (personnel, intelligence, operations, logistics and political implications) and use all that information to create an order of the day, Lomperis said. 3. Our AIT class in 1971 at A.P.G. His unit lost more men to overdose and traffic accidents in Germany than to combat in Vietnam.